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9/11
Sept 10, 2006 7:08:33 GMT -5
Post by Disturbed on Sept 10, 2006 7:08:33 GMT -5
Ok. Since this board can be about anything I'm going to talk about something that's difficult for me because I'm a minister. I guess I feel like I'm always wrong about this but I don't think I am.
I'm somewhat disturbed by all the 9/11 sermons and hype at this time of year. But particularly my church. Today we're about to show a video to help us remember 9/11--because we apparently forgot about it--and it has some really unsettling footage. There are the planes crashing into the buildings, of course, but then there's footage of people falling to their deaths because they chose to jump out the building rather than burn alive.
I'm bothered about this in my heart because I don't think our children or our community need to see people dieing in real time, in real life, on a church projector.
If you knew me, you'd know I'm all about the shock value in relevant preaching and ministry. But this, I believe, is crossing the line.
There. I told someone. Any thoughts.
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9/11
Sept 10, 2006 14:50:54 GMT -5
Post by Greg adkins on Sept 10, 2006 14:50:54 GMT -5
Hey there "disturbed"... welcome to the board and feel free to remain anonymous... it's a safe place.
Man, I understand totally being a minister and feeling less than 100% on board with things going on in your own church. It's harder than anyone realizes who hasn't been in that position... you want so badly in your heart to be part of a team that has the same goals and dreams and visions and values... it doesn't always work out that way and when you end up conflicted, it's just hard to find any peace. This has really messed with me at times in my own life... it's had a negative effect on me at home... on my sleep... on my health... all of that.
I don't have a problem with churches wanting to take a moment to reflect on 9/11 or even to remember it, but I'm with you 100% on the video. What a horrible idea. I mean, we all have seen it. Why force people who don't want to relive that to watch it again. I saw those people jump the first time and I don't EVER want to see that again... not in a movie, not on TV, and sure as heck not in worship! In all honesty, images like that, in my opinion, stir up thoughts in the heart the opposite of worship... you see that suffering and wonder where God was... you doubt... you question... I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having those thoughts (who hasn't had them?) but in a time of worship, should we be stirring up feelings that lead you to do something so drastically opposed to worship?
Those are my "thinking out loud" thoughts... anyone else?
- Greg
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9/11
Sept 10, 2006 18:07:22 GMT -5
Post by Paula on Sept 10, 2006 18:07:22 GMT -5
We had no formal mention of 9/11 today at our church. Sunday school was a little more of a political discussion than usual, and I felt like there was a heightened sensitivity because of the "anniversary" tomorrow. People were talking about flying their flags tomorrow, stuff like that. But I don't think anyone needed a visual reminder of 9/11. On this Sunday, "Love God; Love People," needed to fill every possible moment! And it did.
On the other hand, I walked into church and left my car idling in the parking lot until someone told me after the song service. And Brian's sermon included the phrase "pull my finger" in a hypothetical dialogue between Jesus and his disciples. So, I guess we are not the best barometer of how to do church on difficult days.
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9/11
Sept 10, 2006 18:42:15 GMT -5
Post by Greg adkins on Sept 10, 2006 18:42:15 GMT -5
How come the question of Jesus' humanity always comes down to bodily functions?
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9/11
Sept 10, 2006 21:54:36 GMT -5
Post by Paula on Sept 10, 2006 21:54:36 GMT -5
"Jesus wept" just isn't enough for some people.
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9/11
Sept 11, 2006 23:41:36 GMT -5
Post by kagomeshuko on Sept 11, 2006 23:41:36 GMT -5
Yeah, I was teaching Sunday School and the part people had to do was close their eyes, imagine walking down a street in the autumn, and seeing a person, then realizing it was Jesus. When they opened their eyes, the first question I asked them was "What was the first thing Jesus said to you?"
One of the high school boys responded (saying that Jesus said) "Who farted?"
On the 9/11, no mention of it at my church - at was our fill-in pastor's last day -she's moving to Minnesota, so a lot of it was "memories/goodbye/see you later" type stuff.
Stein Auf! Bridget
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9/11
Sept 12, 2006 7:42:01 GMT -5
Post by Anonymous on Sept 12, 2006 7:42:01 GMT -5
Back to Disturbed. I was put off by my church's 911 display, but I'm never a fan of theme days at church since we already have a theme!! Those were my consumer thoughts. As a producer, or as an architect, later I realized that 911 is the one piece of shared history that evokes the same response from people. So for our generation, we don't have WWII or the Great Depression as a common experience to draw from. Even though some of our attempts were clumsy and graphic and in bad taste, that might be what it takes to tender some hearts in His direction. He can even use our royal screw-ups to move His plan ahead. I just want to give Him more to work with today than I did yesterday!!! --shalom
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9/11
Sept 14, 2006 23:24:14 GMT -5
Post by Whipple on Sept 14, 2006 23:24:14 GMT -5
I must say, even with the relevance of the not-quite-so-current events of 9/11/(01), I usually start to feel a little put off when folks stop to 'remember.' Let's have done with remembering, and begin acting in a way that reflects the divine lessons we learn on days like that - such as support and community. It's honestly starting to feel a bit like Christmas in the horrid way it's sensationalized - though in a bit of a negatopian evening-news style of presentation.
Of course, I think differently than most. I refuse to watch the Narnia movie again, because it quite disrupted the imaginative pictures and dialogue of the characters that I gleaned from the books. Same reason I don't want to see Passion again. I much prefer the freedom of my imagination than the static picture of Jim Cavaziel (though he is a talented actor).
Thankfully, I heard nothing of 9/11 at church on the 10th. I can't imagine a video of that nature though. It has the possibility of making a travesty of Bible study, simply from the distraction and emotion.
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Disturbed No MoreReally
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9/11
Sept 15, 2006 12:56:44 GMT -5
Post by Disturbed No MoreReally on Sept 15, 2006 12:56:44 GMT -5
The worst part about what happened this past Sunday about this video was that there was no seque into or out of it. Our pastor simply left it hanging and then preached his worst sermon to date.
That only added to my frustrations. You can't just leave something like that hanging.
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9/11
Sept 15, 2006 13:17:07 GMT -5
Post by Greg adkins on Sept 15, 2006 13:17:07 GMT -5
Wow. That sounds... horrible.
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9/11
Sept 16, 2006 9:59:24 GMT -5
Post by anaonymous on Sept 16, 2006 9:59:24 GMT -5
Disturbed-- glad you're over last week's assault on the senses. If you are serving in this church, can you have a heart to heart with the pastor? Things like this usually don't go away on their own. He will allow you to help him avoid future fiascos, or he won't. IMHO, best to find out now and save everybody some time.
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disturbed but not so much
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9/11
Sept 16, 2006 19:00:38 GMT -5
Post by disturbed but not so much on Sept 16, 2006 19:00:38 GMT -5
quick answer...yes...and...no.
i've thought about it alot. i wish i could share the total history behind these sort of things. i can't. bottom line: i'm trying. that's all i can do.
for the record, he was approached about the matter before we 'aired' the footage. he simply has a different philosophy than i do. it's me that could actually be wrong. i'm trying to figure that out before i say one word. that seems best.
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9/11
Sept 16, 2006 22:48:23 GMT -5
Post by anonymous on Sept 16, 2006 22:48:23 GMT -5
hang in there. better to vent here. greg's right. it's a safe place.
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