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Post by Greg adkins on Oct 16, 2005 19:07:39 GMT -5
Marcus asked a question about Emergent stuff... particularly about him reading some books from the Emergent YS series (put out by youth specialties). Marcus... this is your official invitation to discuss... what's on your mind?
- Greg
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Post by marcus Fife on Oct 17, 2005 0:36:00 GMT -5
I am so interested in reaching out to the emerging culture. I am really interested in emerging churches. I just don't know if I am "cut out" for it, at least in the way some of the books put it. I am reading "STORIES OF EMEREGENCE." Man it is stretching me. Particularly in one chapter that says that we (modern Christians) may be wrong about homosexuality. While I agree that the way we talk about, deal with, and many times have judgemental attitudes about it is not a reflection of Christ, I still can't deny the fact that the Word of God says that homosexual sex is wrong and sin. I am not saying this because I am homophobic and have no experience in talking and knowing homosexuals. I do. It's just that I know that is one "ABSOLUTE" that I can't let go of. I don't want to sound too traditional and modern, but I just think there are things that we should keep about modern Chrstianity as opposed to postmodern Christianity. People who know me know that I am not a stickler for pointing out problems. I have plenty of them myself. It's just that I want to be "gung ho" about ministering in a post-modern church. I think it is me. I just want to be totally real with people. The above is just my only drawback with emergent stuff...so far. This journey might bring more ideas to the table.
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arthur
Shift Manager
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Post by arthur on Oct 17, 2005 13:56:15 GMT -5
Marcus,
I just got done with "A New King of Christian" by Brian McLaren. I liked a lot of what he had to say, but on various points he made me mad which is a good thing. I am beginning to work out these notions with fear and trembling. In regards to homosexuality, I agree with you. You're not sounding too traditional or modern....you're sounding like an honest man with firm convictions.
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Post by Jeff on Oct 19, 2005 8:32:08 GMT -5
This could sound vague...
I feel like "modernity" offered me so much in my faith. The downsides were:
1. I always felt like it was a little rigid with its concept of grace and salvation
2. I didn't feel like I could be totally open with 'moderns'
3. Making my church look good was more important than making life changes and being part of a family
This is very similar to what I've read from authors like McLaren, Sweet, etc., when they talk about 'modernity' versus 'post-modernity'. When I read their books I felt like there was actually people out there, 'moderns' in fact, that understood my groanings about 'modernity' and what its language was and what it offered.
Emerging culture is often too quick to say things that polarize past faith-based approaches to life. It also has too much fun being quiet and vague about Jesus and the Christian life. Emerging culture likes to "open up discussion" but then rarely participate. I think those are some of the downsides to the 'next generation' of believers. And so, although Emerging culture really feels like it's on the best path, it's got so many kinks that I'm not sure what to do with Emerging culture myself.
My observation of the Emergent movement is that it wants to get back to Jesus and our deep relationship with God, which is sometimes too melodramatic for 'moderns', and I like that. However, as Sweet and McLaren will tell us, the pendulum will swing harshly and miss the mark just like any other movement. It will take time and consistency (which is difficult in America because we are not patient) to resolve the movements approach.
I'm sure that I belong working with people on an 'emerging level' but I am not too often proud of my modern roots nor my emerging present. The basics are, and will always, be basic, and that's what I cling to.
I have confidence things will smooth out for both sides of the cultural shift...including the convictions of people on both sides of the spectrum. But, this can only happen one relationship at a time, one issue at a time, with Jesus/God standing in the middle.
If we're always looking up we don't have to worry about watching the road. The road takes care of itself. (anonymous)
Just some thoughts.
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Post by marcus Fife on Oct 19, 2005 21:37:04 GMT -5
Wow. Most of that is exactly what I am feeling. I guess I am probably on the same page with all the other people moving out of a completely modern way of thinking.
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Post by Greg adkins on Oct 24, 2005 0:24:18 GMT -5
good thoughts everyone... you know, I've read a lot on this whole modern-post-modern thing... way more than I should have actually, and what I've come down to is the realization that I have a lot to learn and a lot to figure out. I do believe the world is changing / has changed... I also think that labels tend to be widely mis-used and misunderstood. People don't like for postmodern types to label them moderns... postmoderns tend to not like moderns to label them either... so many people use those words to mean totally different things, it's easy to get very confused.
As for me... I've realized that I'm no theologian (and no, I don't know nothin' about your soul) and I'm going to stay away from trying to explain the theology to people. I'm going to focus on being an artist and a poet... I know... big dorky hippie words... but seriously... I'm just trying to know my role in all of this. I can spin my wheels trying to explain post vs. pre vs. whatever to people when the reality is... most people outside of this discussion don't care about my labels or my theology... what they care about is normal, everyday life stuff... I hate my job... my wife is going to leave me... my kids are out of control... I'm in debt up to my eyes.
If as a pastor (and I am that first... this pseudo music career comes in second) I forget to love these people where they are in their lives, I have failed. I'm not saying there is not room for all this discussion, of course there is... and I've enjoyed being a part of it to some degree... but lately I'm finding that just to love folks in life takes more time than I even could hope to give and I find very little time leftover to be thinking on the whole emerging/pomo thing. It's out there... it's early in the game... and I'm glad there are some good people involved in it. I'll continue to read McLaren, Sweet, and some others to keep up to date... but I'm out of the game for the most part... I'll leave it to others to identify trends and describe the world. I'll take up my seat on the outskirts and write folk songs about it... that's really all I can do with any hint of proficiency anyway.
Sorry if this is a confusing post... it's 1:30 am.
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arthur
Shift Manager
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Post by arthur on Oct 24, 2005 12:43:08 GMT -5
Greg,
Thank you, man for your post. You're very right, loving people is the key not labeling people.
This should be where we should spend ourselves.
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Post by kagomeshuko on Nov 15, 2005 10:16:23 GMT -5
I want to read "Stories of Emergence" because it seems quite interesting. I know George Baum wrote one of the stories and when he submits and article or a story, I enjoy reading those. However, I honestly don't know much about this moder/postmodern stuff. Perhaps that's a good thing. God seemed to call me to pursue a career in Youth Ministry (yeah, in high school when I though, "oh, and i'll do youth ministry" that was as a volunteer thing, aside from whatever job I'd have. . .haha. . .). I just focus on people - who they are, what are their concerns, and caring about them, and showing them God's love.
I couldn't tell you what I am according to this. All I can tell you is that most people would call me a liberal Lutheran, a youth minister, a poet, a writer.
The whole homosexual thing is a bit confusing to me, too. I cannot deny that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. However, I also can't deny that I know that God can use ANYBODY. Homosexual deserve rights because they are HUMAN. I didn't CHOOSE to be heterosexual. I support homosexuals. . .who am I to judge? Homosexuality is also in a huge list of other sins - and what person doesn't sin?
So, the simply, the focus needs to be on God's love. I don't think labeling helps, and I'm glad that I don't know what I'd be label. People can label me all they want, and I'll just be who I am. I'll just let others be who they are, too.
Stein Auf!
Bridget
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